Vox Populi
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Joshua Dubois: What the President secretly did at Sandy Hook Elementary School
Below is an excerpt from The President’s Devotional by Joshua Dubois, the former head of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. He’s recounting events that occurred Sunday, December 16, 2012 — two days after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, when 20-year-old Adam Lanza fatally shot 20 children and 6 adult staff members. Dubois had gotten word the day before that the President wanted to meet with the families of the victims:
I left early to help the advance team—the hardworking folks who handle logistics for every event—set things up, and I arrived at the local high school where the meetings and memorial service would take place. We prepared seven or eight classrooms for the families of the slain children and teachers, two or three families to a classroom, placing water and tissues and snacks in each one. Honestly, we didn’t know how to prepare; it was the best we could think of.
The families came in and gathered together, room by room. Many struggled to offer a weak smile when we whispered, “The president will be here soon.” A few were visibly angry—so understandable that it barely needs to be said—and were looking for someone, anyone, to blame. Mostly they sat in silence.
I went downstairs to greet President Obama when he arrived, and I provided an overview of the situation. “Two families per classroom . . . The first is . . . and their child was . . . The second is . . . and their child was . . . We’ll tell you the rest as you go.”
The president took a deep breath and steeled himself, and went into the first classroom. And what happened next I’ll never forget.
Person after person received an engulfing hug from our commander in chief. He’d say, “Tell me about your son. . . . Tell me about your daughter,” and then hold pictures of the lost beloved as their parents described favorite foods, television shows, and the sound of their laughter. For the younger siblings of those who had passed away—many of them two, three, or four years old, too young to understand it all—the president would grab them and toss them, laughing, up into the air, and then hand them a box of White House M&M’s, which were always kept close at hand. In each room, I saw his eyes water, but he did not break.
And then the entire scene would repeat—for hours. Over and over and over again, through well over a hundred relatives of the fallen, each one equally broken, wrecked by the loss. After each classroom, we would go back into those fluorescent hallways and walk through the names of the coming families, and then the president would dive back in, like a soldier returning to a tour of duty in a worthy but wearing war. We spent what felt like a lifetime in those classrooms, and every single person received the same tender treatment. The same hugs. The same looks, directly in their eyes. The same sincere offer of support and prayer.
The staff did the preparation work, but the comfort and healing were all on President Obama. I remember worrying about the toll it was taking on him. And of course, even a president’s comfort was woefully inadequate for these families in the face of this particularly unspeakable loss. But it became some small measure of love, on a weekend when evil reigned.
—
From The President’s Devotional. Copyright 2013 Joshua Dubois.
Children waiting outside the school after the shooting. [photo: Michelle McLoughlin]
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The Comforter in Chief. You need a huge heart to go through that or to even want to. God I miss him. ♥
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This is do beautiful. I know it will never be forgotten.
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This is one of the most incredible events that has ever happen to our great American people, I would not think any thing less from a great President we had and the enduring sadness that this has created. To the peaceful people of this country it is a reminder that life is very precious and we must always respect and behold it with all our might! Please Dear God give the people relief from the burden that has been placed on them. The personal attention that was imposed by our President would hopefully be of some relief!
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To the Sandyhook families – I still feel your pain and heartbreak. Nothing I can say will ever (or should ever) make it “easier”.
But I, along with president Obama am still determined to not let the atrocity define us.
We are better than that as President Obama showed …
You and your families as well as president Obama and his family are forever in my thoughts and prayers.
May your loved ones always be the source of joy and happiness, peace and inspiration, resolve and love.
Neill Schwartz
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He is an incredibly kind and caring man. God bless him for his ministering to those who suffer.
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This is not about politics, it’s about compassion for our fellowman and a person who was emotionally sensitive to the heartbreak of his brothers and sisters. President Obama has shown us in this example of how we are to convry love and sympathy to those who are devastated by an horrendous act of cruelty.
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Heart wrenching and yet so heart felt. Love President Obama. I could never see trump doing that. He would send someone else. He doesn’t have empathy or sympathy.
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Pingback: 2017-04-03 – I'm James
Reblogged this on Site Title.
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I will miss President Obama, Michele Obama, his family and, most of all, the humanity he restored to the office of President of the United States. He has set the bar very high for his successors. I fear they will come woefully short of reaching it.
I sincerely hope his voice of reason, his humanity and his dignity will remain a strong reminder for the American People in the coming years of what can be achieved when we remain hopeful and consider how our actions can have far reaching effects for future generations.
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The Obamas restored the dignity, eloquence, courage, and intelligence to the POTUS. But just as Abraham Lincoln was flanked by two vastly inferior Presidents, Millard Fillmore [??] and Andrew Johnson, our twenty-first century Lincoln is flanked by Bush and Trump.
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Jeremiah J. Nowell 919-610-7427
My phone is small, my thumbs are fat. All typos are due to that.
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Unbelievable
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Thank you President Obama for acting on the behalf of millions and millions of Americans and all people for expressing our sympathy and solidarity with these families who experienced the loss, horror, and extreme sorrow when their children were violently massaquered. We can not cover up or minimize the horror of the crime that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
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This is OUR President, the one who will forever hold a reverent place in my heart. I love and respect you Barack, thank you for what you have done for our country. God help us all in the years to come… I am only thankful that it was you in office when this tragedy happened and not that BUFFOON.
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Our beloved Comforter in Chief
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May our Presidential leadership have this kind of energy, empathy, and love.
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I am weeping after reading this. Of course he did this without fanfare and with quiet dignity. He will be sorely missed.
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Bless Him, Bless those littlest Angels and their families. #Westillweep.
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What an amazing President and Leader. I will certainly miss him in the coming years. President and Mrs. Obama are America’s shoulder to lean on and they will be missed.
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I think we still have their presence when it counts. They are not going away.
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MY President!
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Mine Too……with a grateful heart!
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Yes, President Barack Obama is MY President too…and the one with the Biggest Heart, Not too full of himself to be really just REAL and Human…He is really too Good for the Politics of The Elite…makes them look like a bunch of Power Hungry Stuffed Shirts…who only care about themselves and their Cronies…President Obama and First Lady Michelle have been the most Family Oriented Lovely Examples of Grace, Kindness, Heart, Sincerity and Equanimity. They will be Truly and Greatly Missed.
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Mine too….I’m trying hard not to worry about the ‘possibilities’ in the coming years. even with all the horrors of the past few years, I’ve still felt safe under the Obama administration — I don’t feel safe now. I want to — but I don’t. The Obamas have been a class act and will difficult to follow. God Bless them and God Bless our counry as we struggle to find our way. God, please offer us grace in handling the transition and Father God, please keep us safe.
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The Sandy Hook Elementary School gave their little lifes for us to deepen our commitment to peace, realization of the sanctity of life, hoping one no one will suffer as a consequence of mental illness, gun violence.
❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️
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I believe he faced each parent and teachers worst nightmare with grace, courage, compassion, and infinite wisdom. What possible disaster, could have been more heart breaking than that one. Our hopes for tomorrow, had been shattered in millions of glass chards.
What all of us hold sacred. Our children. The people who dedicated their lives to the education of those children. The bond to do our very best for each and every one.
Our President offered his heartfelt sympathy.
I believe him to be an extraordinary man.
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He’s such a class act and one that will be hard to follow…
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I am going to miss him greatly!
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Ugh!
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You are all disgusting… politicizing this event. Truly a sad commentary on how you as an Americans conduct yourselves. Have you no shame? No wonder this country is in the sad state that it is, with such fine and upstanding folks such as you leading the way.
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What are you talking about???
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What are you???
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Shut up.
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Unbelievable! That anyone could “ugh” at this time when everybody’s heart was broken. Present Obama is a caring man and you disgust me. Don’t know where you’re from but this is one of the worst tragedies we’ve had here. You have no heart. You’ll really like Trump. He doesn’t give a shit about anybody but himself.
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Melanie Taylor – You and many of your leftist loonie friends here are really just like the cancerous o’bummer himself. Only see what you want to see because it is convenient to disregard everything else. Only your views are important.
Yeah, I vividly remember the numerous funerals of cops murdered by the racist black-thugs-matter crowds. The thief-in-command made such beautiful unifying gestures by attending those funerals.. oh wait, no he didn’t..
..because lives only matter if they help him to push an agenda.
Hope he draws yet another red line in the sand somewhere and disappears in the giant abyss of lies and deceits he created – a legacy of his..
obama – the ultimate divider and manipulator of our nation.
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You write “Yeah, I vividly remember the numerous funerals of cops murdered by the racist black-thugs-matter crowds. The thief-in-command made such beautiful unifying gestures by attending those funerals.. oh wait, no he didn’t.”
Aside from your blatant racism, which is between you and your conscience, your claim that Obama did not attend funerals of slain police officers, is wrong. Most recently, this summer he and Michelle attended the services for the ambushed police officers in Dallas. Because you obviously care deeply about offices killed in the line of duty, I’m sure you watched the services on TV. I don’t know how you missed the President’s 40 minute memorial speech, or thre fact that he met privately with the families. You probably took him Just another “black thug” — them coloreds all look alike, huh?
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Jerry – You little bozo, I’m a minority myself and know all too well about racism, typically coming from leftist “elitists” such as yourself. Of course, you’re an elite only in your own eyes because you’re nothing but a pile of manur to me.
Yes, black thugs matter movement is racist or revenge racist if you will and any real president would’ve acknowledged that. Being a minority is no excuse for promoting violence. I’m a minority and I never did and never will. However, black thugs lives gang is a violent movement and his silence is equivalent to him approving of their behavior. Once again, o’bummer cherry picks murders in our nation for his own political agenda. He should’ve attended every single police officer’s funeral. Their death happened on his watch as he’s the one who divided our nation more than any other president.
No, he has no heart despite what all of you leftist lunatics claim.
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Well gosh, so you’re a minority yourself. Doesn’t that make you special? I was just pointing out that you were wrong in claiming that Obama had not attended and police officers’ funerals. Moving the goal post (from he hasn’t attended any to he must attend them all) is a neat trick. I mustn’t make anything of this rhetorical deception, though, because I’m just a little bozo.
(Actually, I’m 6’2 250#, making me a BIG bozo.)
Have a wonderful day.
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Ok, I stand corrected. You’re a fat bozo.
Still a leftist loon who assumes that all minorities buy into your leftist derangemet theory.
Just like your predecessors fought so hard to keep the slavery alive the modern democrats fight just as hard to keep us all in your servitude by keeping us dependent on government assistance. ..in the meantime you claim you’re “helping the poor”.. oh the irony..
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You really are kind of a mess. I hope you can straighten yourself out at some point in your life. We all had predecessors, even you. Mine were among the first and worst in that came to the new world. I too am a minority, being a woman. We have been repressed for centuries. We all have problems.
When I saw a cop take a pot shot at a black “life” who was walking down the street, I realized that black lives matter but that cop had not gotten that message. All lives matter but sometimes we have to emphasize one or two just to remind ourselves.
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Yes. Well said.
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Niclas, You’re a minority, my ass! I’m so glad we don’t have to be politically correct anymore because I can now say, what you are is a cunt! Go jump off a bridge and take all you ‘Publinut comrades with you!
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You haven’t a clue who or what you are talking to. You just spout of dirty words and negative thoughts. Too bad about folks like you that are failures as honorable human beings.
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Niclas…I will pray for your hate…you need help, my friend..hiding behind a keyboard with no real factual verbiage to help the people who have been victims of hate. All I can see in your communication is you are hateful…this article is about a person showing compassion to families who lost their children…Did you loose a child and no one came to the funeral? .Well if so, then I am very sorry for your loss..President, black, white, green, lobbyist..to citizen…Compassion IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT! So now, lets see your communication skill behind the keyboard, WITHOUT your bully skills in the background..use your skills dude..cause you are lacking in this venue…More of a toilet read..magazine called Star writer! ~ I wont hold my breath waiting for your response either. Yet, I will pray for your brain and hate to heal so the little passion you do have can be applied for the Good!
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Really? Do you really believe TRUMP can do better?! Ignorant people will only believe what they want to see.
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As dumb as you sound, you are probably not in the minority in this country.
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😀
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As sheltered and retarded as you sound you’ll probably end up drinking yourself to death one day.. that’s all your little brain understands. . treating people like garbage will end up eating you up inside up.
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Seriously??? Now, besides racism and body shaming, you have to bring mental disabilities into your weak argument??? Grow a pair and stand up for your beliefs without tearing others down. You need to look inside yourself before spouting words of wisdom to others. IE: ‘ . treating people like garbage will end up eating you up inside up.’ Take your own words to heart young one.
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Kerry: I’ve responded to this guy a few times myself. I’ve come to believe he is your basic troll. All of his answers are so profoundly stupid that I it defies the odds. This guy must be TRYING to be stupid. He’s just trying to bait us into a trip down some innane rabbit hole.
Happy New Year.
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Kerry – I don’t treat people like garbage. I was replying to hateful leftist lunatics – who fit the definition of human garbage.
Like Jerry – the token communist-wannabe who’s trying so hard to make sense and to sound balanced and yet he’s nothing but a piece of leftist manure.
Fortunately for our nation the current revenge-racist-in-command is going to be out of office very soon. Don’t care for trump but I hope he picks real minorities to heal the divide and not some well-spoken token thugs for his administration. As a minority I’ve been ashamed for pretty much the last 7 1/2 years of the fiasco in the White House. The first 6 months I gave him the benefit of the doubt because at least he sort of looked like me. Shortly thereafter though I realized he’s just a deranged ideologue who’ll do everything he can to divide us even more and to maximize the simmering resentment and hate in our country for his own benefits.
The cancerous POS can’t leave the White House soon enough!
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I’m old. Been around a long time. Discrimination against women is and was alive and well.
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I feel so sad for the families that lost their love ones that your political stand was more important than their loss.
Yes, this is our America. God comfort those families.
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In no way do I believe that my political stand is more important than the loss to these families; hovever, I do believe that there are political implications that are worthy of discussion. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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I feel so sad for the families that lost their love ones that your political stand was more important than their loss.
Yes, this is our America. God comfort those families.
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POS.
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Wonderful response!
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https://www.facebook.com/sybilmcguire
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What is wrong, who has hurt you so deeply that you have so much hate and think so lowly of an individual that can do nothing to solve the problems of this world. I am so sorry that you believe one individual can divide a nation. Love and hate are in the heart I know because I had to overcome the death of a daughter at age 38 who died of breast cancer. My heart hurts for you so I am going to think of you and pray that some day, some how you can forgive whoever hurt you and learn to love unconditionally.
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Susie – kind words and I’m truly sorry about your daughter. Please focus on praying for your family and for our nation. I don’t need your prayers and I’m quite convinced that history will prove me right. The current occupier of the White House divided our nation more than any other president in modern history.
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He did not divide it. The division was there, and it was exposed by those prejudice and bigoted folks who defame him.
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Hey, how is it that koolaid is only about the liberals? Don’t both left and right each drink their flavors of koolaid? Looking at reasons Obama is considered an Ideologue, all I’m finding is koolaid. I doubt that he’s either so evil or so holy.
I know I’m late with my reply to this, but I have to speak. Saying that Obama divided our nation is like saying that the captain of the Lusitania pulled us into WWI. It took two captains, the Lusitania’s and the U Boat’s, to do that. Obama did force the ObamaCare steamer through in spite of the warnings, but the divide didn’t happen solely because of his navigation of that heath care reform bill (which was not-very-socialist but that was good for making socialism-scare-flavored koolaid)? It took the commitment by the republicans in Congress to never give an inch to Obama to finish the job. Both sides contributed to the divide, and in the eyes of many, it was the republicans who turned a sane opposition and pushed it to an insane paralysis. Why did it take all these years for the republicans to propose badly needed repairs to ObamaCare? Repeal, after all, will actually be repair. Many features are too good to drop.
Meantime, back to Obama’s action in Connecticut, doing that without a big media hype was a class act, whether you supported him or not. No, these people are not politicizing it. They’re admiring a man for doing a good thing. Give us a story about Trump doing such a good thing.
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Niclas-you should try reading and understanding what is actually going on in the world before you open your mouth. I was not a supporter of Obama. But, I have come to view him as a good man and has done many good things in spite of his treatment over the course of 8 years. Never in my 60 years have I seen a president treated so poorly then I have with President Obama. I’m ashamed of how my party has treated him…disgraceful. What happened at Sandy Hook was devastating for those parents and for our Nation. History will be kind to him as our President…perhaps the last good president we will see for a while. You will go down as another ignorant bystander pretending to be right.
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Matt – Please stop pretending “your” party treated o’MightyOne badly. You’ve been a leftist extremist all your life so don’t you come here pretending otherwise. You think obummer was treated poorly? Really? Were you one of the leftist hoodlums calling bush a Nazi and calling for his assassination as many of you did? Apparently you all have a very short memory but the same democrats who all but a handful voted for the same wars republicans did ended up turning against those wars when they became unpopular. Then most of you became despicable morons who attacked bush at every chance you got. I couldn’t give a rat’s a@$ about bush but at least he didn’t change his views as frequently as you all did and at least he was proud of our country. Obummer has always been ashamed of America as he’s an ultra-left indoctrinated apparatchik who cares more about an ideology than about our country. You all keep swooning all over him while pretending than he’s our messiah. However, many of us see him as nothing but a manipulative ideologue who’ll do all he can to put himself in a favorable light while denigrating this nation of ours. Good riddance!
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Self aware much, Nic? Please, open a new tab forthwith and resume your hours of nightly masturbation. You’ve earned it, chief.
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Well, being a right extremist is a nasty place to be and that’s where you are. Starve the poor, and persecute the minorities.
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Well spoken. Thanks
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Yeah, once again, you make it so easy with your Freudian slips. You definitely are a crazy piece of something, aren’t you?
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I completely agree with you.
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While we did have a Dem President. Congress was controlled by Repubs, most states are controlled by Repubs. It would seem that the Repubs were in charge. If you don’t like the way the country “went”, it is only your fault.
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..and you complete the koolaid cycle….
Of course, never your fault, always the other side’s fault..
Yeah, “crazy piece” is definitely the perfect user name for you. What a waste of breathing air..
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I see that I am getting under your skin a bit.
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How sad that you, clh, completely missed the point. It’s not politicizing the event. It’s an example of the humanity, grace, and poise of a very fine man. We have been blessed to have him as our president.
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I have never knew as sensitive as President Obama at times like this. Years came to my eyes immediently as I read on. Over and over again our President has shown his personal side of life, I find him to be caring, compassionate, sensitive, and empathic. He has always come across as a down to earth sensitive man who does whatever it takes to be their for victims from every kind of tragedy. God bless this man, our President who will be so missed. There are no words to describe it. I will truly miss your speeches, mild chatter. Heartfelt photos and the whole Obama family.
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So true. A real American who showed his love and respect for his fellow Americans that never seemed forced or insincere.
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I relieve so too Ms. Janice , wonderful man at heart.
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Thank God. Someone with feeling speaks up. I don’t know where some of these people come from or what rock they crawled out from under.
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This is what a great and humble President lke Obama would do.
Hard to imagine how a selfish man like Trump would respond, but he would perhaps not even know about it as he has no need to be informed of the news.
Jane Schaller
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I knew one of the children killed at Sandy Hook. That the President spoke to the parents and families of these children , as a representative of the entire country, was a gesture that had its own burden. I’m sure he handled those moments with grace. I’m sure that his presence let those families know that they were not alone in their grief.
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Reblogged this on Rainy Day Writing and commented:
Acts of true courage, leadership and love by a man who will be sorely missed…
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I did not know President Obama did this, or not to this detail. As I read this page on this day December 19th of the electoral vote, I am truly saddened that we have arrived at such a place as this. I am an immigrant who came here at 11 years of age , my dad is american served in the Marines. When time came, I also served in the US military.. But rather my point is that when I arrived here as a child, this country and its people opened their arms up to me and their warmth was so comforting.
This electional result is in my eyes a loss of reason. A loss of empathy for the cloth of humanity we all inexorably belong to and are forever intertwined into. We have entered an age where history will not regard this moment as one of our best. It may very well regard it as one of our worst, only time will tell.
There is still hope however, the disparaging minority may have won this battle but the majority will prevail and reason and compassion will succeed over this irrational moment. For it to be otherwise would be unthinkable and declare that for all those who have gone before, their sacrifice was for naught….
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Today, December 19th, 2016, we will discover if the Electoral College is composed of statesmen working for the common good, or of politicians looking out solely for their own interests.
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We found out…they are looking out for their own interests.
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We found out. Our electoral college statesmen didn’t succum to threats and the intimidation of the ultra-left. They looked out for the common good. Thank God!!!
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You must be looking at a different electoral college than I am.
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Pingback: News Roundup & Open Thread for Monday, Dec. 19, 2016 | Blue Jersey
Just like the guns that show up to break hearts and sadden minds, there is always one troll who show up and ruins an event or article. Change the subject because they hate like the people or person doing the killing.
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It’s sad that you see everything through a filter of hate. Just because a person disagrees with you doesn’t require them to hate you. Maybe you see others that way because that’s how you are ???
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Nothing has changed except to get more extreme with Trump. Republicans have always been for the rich in our country and Democrats have always been for the poor. Republican have been known to cut taxes and make loopholes for the riche to get richer. Democrats have created programs to help people in our country get ahead or maintain a basic standard of living. It’s been that way since I can remember. Now it will be worse. We will have more homeless and dead people in our streets than we could ever imagine thanks to Trump and his gang of criminals he’s calling a cabinet. And the funny thing is that Trump supporters will be hit with this just as non-Trump supporters. Oh, they will make up excuses for a while until they run out of excuses and see how empty their own pockets have become. Wait and see. Trump is all about himself and his rich so-called friends. God help all of us.
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You said very well
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Rita Raciak – Talk about leftist koolaid. Wow…
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What does this have to do with this article? NOTHING!
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Least he could do since his administration was behind it to begin with. These always help brainwash people into believing that all guns should be confiscated from everyone, even law abiding citizens, regardless of the Constitution which reiterates that gun ownership cannot be infringed by Congress, the President or the States! It’s a natural right not given to us nor can it be taken from us by the government. Some mass shootings happen because of people who are evil. This is what happens when you take God out of everything. But if they didn’t have guns, they would have found another way. Some mass shootings, I believe are orchestrated by the progressive scum that wants to brainwash the tools and that knows they can’t achieve their goals with an armed populace. But get one thing straight….they can’t take our guns without breaking the law and violating our rights. They can’t even pass legislation with violating the Constitution. So the day they try, there will be a nation full of people who will see it as a clear declaration of war. And they will do whatever is necessary to stop the unlawful seizure of guns. The right to bear arms is the one right that safeguards all others. This isn’t up for debate if you disagree. It’s just a fact. It was decided long ago at the founding of this country. If you are not good with it, you can leave. The weapon doesn’t have a mind of its own. Quit blaming it. We live in a society that is increasingly depraved and immoral. And you wonder why we have people with blackness in their hearts? People have denied their Creator and removed Him from every place they can, and continue to try and encroach on other people’s rights to worship in the name of their own selfishness. It’s a sick world. I will not be huddled in a corner, helpless to defend myself from those who are infected with that sickness. Now you can continue to rant about Trump, perpetuating the liberal media lies all you want. You’re all extremely pathetic losers who can’t stand not getting your way, but you go right ahead. It just solidifies how right we are about you.
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Such hate for someone who speaks about God. Is there not an ounce of compassion in your heart? If not, you need to pray for God to put some there.
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So sad you and your god have come to this place. Life provides us with with such wonderful opportunities for joy and love and compassion.
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Idiot, every president since Kennedy has been accused of trying to get rid of guns, when in fact, none have ever tried. What do you want, every teacher carrying, some teaches are nuts too.
The Constitution does NOT say gun ownership cannot be infringed by the President, Congress or the States.
What is does say is this.
A well regulated MILITIA, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Last time I checked, not everyone is in a Militia.
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The writers of the Constitution specifically included those words because of the situation that was present with the King. The founders wanted to make sure we the people had means to “throw off the chains of tyranny” should the need ever arise again.
Love you dimestore scholars on the Constitution. Try reading Heller Vs. Washington DC.
Somewhat suspicious of this story being fake news as I seem to remember Obama being on vacation and the news stories of him doing just that would seem to dispel this as fake, but could be wrong.
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Yes, you are wrong. He was there. This story is true. All the media outlets carried it. Newspapers, radio, online, even FOX news. http://thehill.com/blogs/twitter-room/other-news/273245-sandy-hook-survivors-tweet-photos-from-obamas-visit
You might want to try informing yourself before you comment. A simple Google search would have turned up this and hundreds of other links, YouTube videos and pictures.. Speaking of dime store “scholars”….
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I have my PhD in Political Theory. I’m not a “dime store scholar. I can say with absolute certainty that your interpretation of the second amendment is Unsupported by the facts.
The second Amendment was very controversial. The chief dispute was between those who thought there should be an individual right to personal ownership of guns, and those who believed that such rights should be contingent upon a responsibility to the state.
To answer this, we need to know why they the felt gun ownership was so important that they should be addressed in the Bill of Rights at all.
(1) First, the founders knew there was always the risk of war, and the country must be prepared. (2) However, they were adamantly opposed to a standing army. (2a) Historically, standing armies had often turned on their governments. (2b) And, it would be very expensive to maintain. Note the enormous amount we spend on our standing army today. We spend as much money on our military as the next10 countries COMBINED!
(3) Further, they believed that democracies run the risk of devolving into tyrannies. Hence, they wanted the citizens to have the ultimate check on their government.
With these considerations in mind, it was almost universally agreed that people should be allowed to own guns, and it was important enough to be among the first ten amendments. Unfortunately, there was some disagreement about the extent and nature of gun rights, with some people arguing that membership in a local militia (NOT a bunch of weekend warriors, but organized militias organized and funded by the state, ready to go if called up by the federal government in time of war). Others contended that gun ownership was a personal, private right, and did not carry any obligation to the state.
They finally compromised, with the first clause establishing this right as contingent on the needs of the country. The second clause stresses a more individual right. The amendment was interpreted with the first clause being primary for 200 years, only recently being extend by the Supreme Court.
Thus, gun ownership is NOT an entirely individual right. It was amended to the constitution largely because it served the anticipated needs of the government, but also to allow for protection against government should dire circumstances require it.
As for the claim that Obama introduced socialism to our country where it never existed before that is simply untrue. We have a mixed economy, as do most countries. Socialist elements began filtering in to our country around the turn of the 20th century, had a huge boost under FDR in the Great Depression, another boost in the 1960s with LBJ’s War on Poverty. Aside from ACA (Obamacare), Obama did little that might be called socialist.
What are some socialist features of our country? Publicly funded fire departments, police departments, basic infrastructure, unemployment insurance, Sicial Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public schools, disaster relief — the list goes on.
If you really want to show integrity, don’t use any of the above. The real test will come after retire, when you highly principled opposition to socialism requires you to send your social security check back to the government each month, un cashed.
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Your little treatise on the 2nd Amendment was great right up to where it totally fell apart when you said: “Thus, gun ownership is NOT an entirely individual right. It was amended to the constitution largely because it served the anticipated needs of the government, but also to allow for protection against government should dire circumstances require it.”…. That’s pretty much 70% wrong, I’ll give you credit for the last part “protection against the government should dire circumstances require it”. The Bill of rights clearly states that they are “unalienable” meaning they are neither bestowed upon nor can they be taken by men or institutions. The Bill of Rights are basic “human rights”… To support this and prove it unequivocally we only have to consider this: In 1787 when the Constitution was written, there was not an Albertson’s or Safeway around the corner. Guns were not just for personal protection, military use or home defense, but also for hunting food. If guns were exclusively allowed for the “needs of the government” most people would have starved to death or slaughtered the few cattle they had. If you had suggested taking away their means of taking a deer or turkey they probably would have shot you and rightly so. They had just escaped a King and your suggestion echos of setting up the same system they had shed: the kings deer, the kings turkey now belong to “We the People”. If that is not proof enough, look at the 1st Amendment. If they took that right away, would you no longer have that right? On the contrary, you would still have it and I suspect you would exercise it even more vocally.
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First, thanks for reading my little treatise. The internet has conditioned people to think anything of 3 sentences is a short story, and two graphs is considered a novel.
No serious person wants to take all the guns away, just some form of background checks and the like.
Your choice of the first amendment to illustrate the inviolability of the bill of rights is excellent. It illustrates just the opposite. It has been well established in the courts that the public interest can give legitimate cause for constraining the bill of rights. The best example is the first amendment. Slander and libel laws limit free speech, for instance. But, if you really want to give it a test, yell “FIRE” in a crowded theater and see how quickly you get arrested.
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Neither the word “unalienable” nor the phrase “natural rights” are included in The Bill of Rights. Quite the contrary, in fact. James Madison wanted the Bill of Rights to include a Preamble in which such concepts would be identified as bases for the enactment of the first 10 Amendments, and his proposed Preamble was outright rejected – in its entirety – by all governing bodies tasked with finalizing and eventually ratifying the Amendments that are known as The Bill of Rights.
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Good input. I didn’t know about Madison’s preamble, and will have to read up on this to find out why everyone objected.
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I’ve read Heller. Scalia decried events like Sandy Hook. He gave a long list of restrictions which USSC would consider constitutional — which, because of NRA, we will never get to. Don’t cite Heller unless you know what you’re doing.
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Sorry Mickey, but what you, and so many others forget there is another document, The Declaration of Independence, that clarifies purpose of individual gun ownership. It says the King has a standing army superior to and separate from the people…That being said, the purpose of the Second Amendment is not about hunting. It’s about a) guaranteeing a persons right to be secure in their perrson and possessions(4th Ammendment) b) freedom of speech, yours and mine. (1st Amendment) c) To provide the people the ability to overthrow a government should it become corrupt and tyranical (I would think that would be of special interest to liberals I’ve heard ranting about President-elect Trump.)… if you say “that could never happen”; look at Syria…. With regards to Sandy Hook specifically. An irresponsible prent let a sick person have access to a weapon and he did an unspeakable act and yes people suffered. We had gun laws before Sandy Hook. I heard the shooter broke 97 laws… 98 would not have stopped him any more than they stopped the shooters in San Bernadino or Florida. Taking guns from law abiding citizens would no more prevent this or make any more sense than making all people stop driving to get drunk drivers off the road. Grouping and punishing the good with the bad is simply not right. Anymore than grouping religious groups for example “all muslims are bad because some are indeed bad” It’s not right or sensible to do so. If you want to see how a Militia works just look to Black Lives Matter or CAIR or one of the other hate groups currently functioning in America. I dont recall the NRA rioting and burning Baltimore or Ferguson.
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The Declaration of Independence has NOTHING – absolutely NOTHING – to do with the U.S. Constitution itself or judicial interpretation of Constitutional language.
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Sorry Regallylegal but the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were in fact written in concert… If you don’t think so, go ask your insurance guy if the “declarations page” of your insurance is a legal document related to the policy….They were written as a sum of their parts, not to be taken apart. The 1st Amendment gives you free speech, the 2nd Amendment is there to insure you will always have the 1st.. see how that works??? And they were all written in relationship to the grievances listed in the Declaration of Independence. Sorry if that upsets you… Perhaps this would be a good time for some cocoa, pizza, your woobie and a safe space.
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Are you really this stupid? I have to stop being drawn in to your crap.
The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were not “written in concert.” They were written over a decade apart, by different people for vastly different purposes.
I’m definitely OK with stupid people. I’m also fine with ignorant people — we are all ignorant of many, many things. But someone who is ignorant and seemingly damn proud of it just boggles the mind.
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Ok Jerry.. so that Star Wars thingy that came out in 1976 has nothing to do with that Rogue One that just came out? Who knew??? Shocked! And that book… uhhh the Bible.. 400 year gap between Old and New Testaments….I was totally unaware that two documents had to be written at exactly the same time to be “written in concert”… I think the word you were seeking was “obtuse” which I am not. Nor am I stupid… If you are incapable of fathoming the complexities of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and how they conjoin, perhaps you should get a refund on your Phd in Political Theory and take up something more suited to your intellect like “feminist dance theory”
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First we get the insurance policy theory of the founding of our country, and now the Star Wars theory! This just gets better and better.
How does the first constitution of the US fit in? Any thoughts? Was that the Chewbaca era?
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Seriously, Joe bob, this has been fun, but I have a life to get back to. Adios.
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Sorry Jerry, I was dumbing it down for you. I figured 3rd grade would be enough. Next time I’ll shoot for Special Ed/1st grade… It’s been real… hasta la vista baby! …Cant believe I managed a Star Wars reference, Arnold quote, Old Testament, New Testament, AND the Constitution and Declaration of Independence all in one conversation! … like a double hat trick! Sweet!
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What a muddled mess! I could reply to nearly every sentence, but will restrict myself to just three things: first, your invoking God as partial justification for unfettered access to guns would be funny, if you did not believe it. Seriously. Where in the New Testament do you find anything about gun ownership? Or anything about the necessity for owning any kind of weapons at all? It cracks me up to picture Jesus, the prince of peace, Mr. turn-the-other-cheek himself, with his profound message of love and forgiveness, as a Republican NRA member, with an AK 47 hung over his shoulder.
The second thing I found funny was this: ” It’s a natural right not given to us nor can it be taken from us by the government.”
A “natural right”? Really? Since the. Eginning of time, as a law of nature, human beings have had a right to own guns? Close your eyes and think back to that day, long ago, when your grandpa took you out to the wilds of nature. Remember the first time you saw them? What a magic moment! Remember the joy and awe when you crested that hill to find a herd of guns in their natural habitat, grazing in a dewy meadow? Nothing like the first time you harvest fresh, free range guns, just as nature intended.
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So, Jerry, what you’re saying is if a person breaks into your home to murder you, you won’t defend yourself? Or if you go for a hike and are attacked by a wild animal, a big fluffy cuddly bear perhaps, which can run about 25 to 37 miles an hour and weigh up to 1300 pounds .. Your plan is just allow it to kill you? …While you may forego your natural instinct to survive, and the bear may appreciate that very much while munching on your femur, we don’t all have to embrace your ignorance and willingness to die. This is a perfect example of natural selection at work. Since I am older and a slow runner I appreciate your willingness to just stand there and taste stinging death for the rest of us. So, yes, despite your perception to the contrary, we do have a natural right to defend ourselves whether the predator is 2 legged or 4 legged kind. That right does not come from a government, it has existed since the beginning of time. The fact that we have gotten rid of the sharp pointy stick and developed more efficient weapons may bother you but that’s really not my problem. I guess my final questions would be this: Those people who died at Sandy Hook… Did they have a right to defend themselves or did the government take that right away somehow? Do you think they would have cared about a law saying they couldn’t defend themselves at that moment?… Oh the bible thing: They didn’t have guns then (if they existed you can bet they would have) but since you asked: Joel 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, “I am a warrior.”
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The victims of Sandy Hook are primarily concerned about the fact that Lanza was able to rapidly fire an obscene amount of bullets from his weapon without having to stop and reload. Every time a mass shooter has to stop and reload, his victims have an opportunity to take him down. High capacity magazines guarantee high casualty rates because would-be heroes simply cannot take down a shooter who is non-stop spraying bullets in all directions.
Making the shooter stop and reload earlier and more frequently gives victims far more opportunities to neutralize or disarm him.
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When you recover from my last reply go to youtube and search for “the Rifleman”, opening, Chuck Conners… The rifle he is using is a 1894 Winchester single shot… not semi automatic, not fully automatic, not an “assault weapon” … I have one and you can re-load it while you fire too. No high capacity clip, but I can run about 20 shots before I grab another handful of shells. I suppose that should be banned too? How about the guy who can shoot 5 arrows from his bow in a second.. ban that too?… Also please enlighten me.. there are supposedly 80 million legal gun owners in America who own roughly 300 million guns. If Obama cant locate and deport 11 million illegals, “because it’s just not feasible” how pray-tell are you going to locate and confiscate 300 million guns from people who dont want to give them up? Just curious. .. and that’s just the legal owners.. you really think the criminals are going to step up and hand over their guns? Not being as sarcastic as you think. I am just amazed how people have a solution but no realistic plan.
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Where did you read any party to this discussion suggest that all guns be confiscated?
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It’s implied Jerry…my mistake for not reading correctly between the lines…So you don’t want to actually take the weapons or the high capacity magazines away???… Maybe just pass a law that says the crazed mass shooters have to count to 10 and yell “ollie ollie oxen free!” between magazines??? Maybe???
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The Book of Joel is in the Old Testament. The guy to which I referred, you know, Jesus? The New Testament is his book. Check it out. It’s all peace, love, forgiveness, left winger kind of stuff.
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I’ll just go tear my Bible in half cuz, you know, that whole first half was a waste of space… Evidently God be like a 5th grade English teacher: “go write me 3000 pages and no copying!” …So that whole old testament was fluff. Got it! I feel so much better now that I can forget all that crap! …. You do know that the Old Testament parallels the New Testament, right? Kinda seeing a pattern here Jerry.. you just don’t get that whole “written in concert” deal huh?
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What are you talking about? How the he’ll is this the fault of anyone but the gun enthusiasts who provide easy access and a lone sicko?
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This is not the fault of the gun enthusiasts… The blame falls directly on the mother who was irresponsible in not locking up her guns with an unstable child in the house. Let’s apply your logic to other situations: All Muslims are bad because some of them are terrorists…. That’s the same argument substituting “Muslim” for “gun enthusiasts”… I have owned many many many guns and used them for about 46 years. Crimes broken: Zero, People harmed or killed: Zero. Obama said “we shouldn’t judge a billion Muslims based on the actions of a few bad actors”… But its okay to judge 80 million legal gun owners based on the actions of even fewer bad actors? Sorry but I disagree.
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Thanks, Greg. I think we can all agree that the people who own guns need to take responsibility for their safe storage and use.
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You talk of the value of having guns to protect oneself, then later blame the mother for not locking up her guns. I see a problem here:
Home. 2:00 am. The bedroom window shatters and two men suddenly appear at the foot of your bed with guns pointed at your head. You say, “AH HA! You criminal scum have picked the wrong house THIS time. Ha. Wait a minute for me to go get my gun out of the gun safe and I’ll sho YOU a thing or two…”
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No Jerry, I have 2 choices… Kimber solo 9mm under the pillow or, if time allows, reach over and put my hand on the biometric gun safe next to my bed which opens with MY fingerprint and I have my loaded Kimber .45 and 3 clips… not to mention I have IR cameras with motion alerts so I would know long before they get near my house. If you want my address let me know! We can test it all out!
Before you say.. Oh, geeze a redneck blah blah blah… nope.. Educated, 3.94 GPA College grad… Curious.. same scenario… 2AM same guys knock down your door… you have no gun… your solution? Call 911 and wait for the coroner to draw a chalk line around you and your wife and notify next of kin?
http://vaulteksafe.com/
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Where do you live that you are so frightened? Have you been assaulted in your home?
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No Vox, I sleep quite well and have no fear. It’s called being prepared… I wasn’t aware that you had to actually be traumatized prior to preparing for the worst while hoping for the best. Do you or your women friends not carry pepper spray? Walk alone at night to their car at the club? If they don’t, they should. And they should take a self defense class too. Sorry but I would rather live on my feet than die on my knees and I don’t plan on becoming a victim… Maybe the better question is: Where do you live that is so crime free that you don’t have home invasions or murder or assaults? I’ll just move there!
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What is wrong with you CJC? The Obama administration never suggested that guns be taken away. The people for gun reform just want them out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill like the young man who killed these people. You listen and believe hatred, project it on others, then call yourself a believer. Sounds scarily familiar. Like people who justify their hatred in the name of their God?
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“Least he could do since his administration was behind it to begin with.”
What is the evidence the President of the United States was behind this event?
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Constitution has been ratified many times. If you think nothing can be done about inequity, study what happened in the Civil War. More lives were lost in the Civil War, by the way, than all the wars we have fought in……combined.
Religion won’t justify the killing of 26 little kids at Sandy Hook!
All of the unrest, war, and atrocities going on in the world today is caused by one thing: religion. It is amazing to see in a technologically advanced age that people….tribes, if you will, will war over people not adhering to their beliefs!
Believe whatever you want……..don’t expect others, or ME, to believe as you do. A 2000 year old book of atrocities and hate doesn’t interest me…….call it the word of god all you like…….it ISN’T1
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I do believe in God but I think your post was great. It makes you think and you are right all that is going on today is because of religion and trying to force ones personal beliefs on someone else. They can talk about terrorist threats all they want but the biggest threat is the people in our own country and the republican congress. Sandy Hook was an American tragedy and that the president begged congress to act and they chose not to was even worse.
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Whoa there sicko… This was an article about compassion, not an attack on the NRA… You are a sad excuse for an American and a human being. If anyone should leave this country it’s those like yourself who are so paranoid and frightened and blinded by hate. Your humanity is gone. You will see how your “God” judges you over time. Your ARE the sickness in this world. And you ARE huddled in a corner, helpless because you have only hate in your heart and hate will be your prison until you learn to let it go.
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From the first sentence to the last your speed limit IQ shows. You smell bad. Very,very bad.
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And, your rant just solidifies how right we are about you. A pathetic Right Wing ultra- conservative Republican who cares about no one but yourself in a depraved and immoral world of your making. And, no need to put God in the middle of this. God would never favor guns. The guns do not have minds, but the people who should never have been allowed access to one do. You may never have to face the truth about yourself in this world, but when you get to the pearly gates you will learn that God is a Liberal.
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Well-said! God is certainly a liberal, but registered as an independent.
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Try not being an asshole for a while. You might actually enjoy it.
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You sir ….. Do not even know or comprehend the 2nd amendment to which you so valiantly hide behind. The 2nd amendment is a very brief passage but so wise in its very first statement ” A well regulated militia ….. ” To this which means that the founding fathers intent was for citizens to protect the citizenry in times of peril. Not for the citizenry to create those time of peril and massacre other citizens….
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you are one messed up person.
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Thanks to whomever it was who posted the OP. Thank you also to CJC, whoever you are, for your comment.
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Your rant is even more pathetic than you could imagine, if you could imagine.
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No one wishes to take guns away, merely do thorough background checks! My questions for you and anyone else afraid of those background checks is simple: “Which side do you wish to be standing on? The right or the left? And I am not talking about the political Isle.” (You’ll find your answer in Mathew 25:31-46)
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If you believe that, I have some land in Florida for sale. 39 coastline acres can be yours for $50,000. write me a check, and I’ll give you a deed – paper for paper.
Oh, and Obama is a terrific actor.
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Since Obama was behind the evil and Sandy Hook, as you say, why did he not take anyone’s guns away after 8 years? Hell, congress didn’t even do squat with the lives of 20 young children not being anywhere near as important as the fantasies of creepy men.
Please review how to spot fake news and conspiracy theories before you post. You make yourself look foolish. And ask yourself some questions about what you post before clicking the button. If it makes you sound completely paranoid, it might be a good idea to let the idea go.
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Wow, talk about brainwashed. You haven’t a clue. As a Christian, I believe my God is not the same as your God. My God is love. People like you who think guns are more important than the lives of others should not claim to be Christian.
Yes, I do agree we live in a sick world, but you are contributing to that sickness with your beliefs in guns, Trump and using God as your excuse!!!
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The only people saying that The Obama Administration wants to take the guns away are the gun manufacturers and the NRA. It’s been almost 8 years. Anyone take your guns yet. Congrats on being a pawn for the NRA! I hope a crazy idiot who got a gun because there are no back ground checks doesn’t decide to shoot up some place you happen to be at. These people lost their children, show some compassion. If you can’t show compassion, then shut the hell up!
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I’m an atheist and am surrounded by atheists who are more God-like than you are. You are full of hatred, as is evident by your angry and hateful words. God has nothing to do with this. You’re the sick one. I worry about people like you who possess guns.
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You have missed the entire point. In the face of great tragedy, the leader of our country came to share in the devastation of these families, without aggrandizement, with only, it seems, to let the Sandy Hook families know that they did not grieve alone. If you have ever lost someone you love, you know how powerful that can be.
As opposed to our leader-elect, who in the face of great human tragedy in Aleppo is all consumed by a bad review of a restaurant.
I am not impressed.
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Sigh, please pray for these families as this time of year is probably very difficult for them.
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The only ones brainwashed, were those such as you, who believed the right-wing lies that President Obama wanted to take away your phallic substitutes. He certainly never said that. As for “blackness in their hearts”? That would be YOU.
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President Obama is such a sincere, caring man, who felt the pain these families were going thru. I’m so proud to have witnessed this CARING man as PRESIDENT OF THE USA…..What a GREAT man we have as our PRESIDENT!!!
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Both President and Mrs Obama have touched the lives of Americans in ways we have yet to know. Thank you for your compassion and Love.
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WOW GUYS- THIS IS AN ARTICLE ABOUT REMEMBERING AND HONORING THOSE THAT WERE LOST AT SANDY HOOK AND A PRESIDENT’S KINDNESS IN THE FACE OF TERRIBLE LOSS. THAT’S IT! STICK TO THE SUBJECT AND OPEN YOUR MIND INSTEAD OF CLOSING IT. YOU CAN DO BETTER.
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I truly believe President Obama really meant what he said and what he did. He is a wonderful human being and we will miss him and his family greatly.
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Reblogged this on Trail Mix and commented:
My definition of a true leader in a crisis
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We are so worried as a country because ,everyone knows trump is not a good man and thats our problem if he had some decency just a little we could abide him as we have done in the pass , if the side you voted for lost . This is not the case the man is unfit if he was not a racist,a liar, if he show us his taxes like so many president before him we could tuff it out but he has no redeeming quality and we as a country are worried .We will miss Obama so very much as always you never miss someone until they are gone
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It breaks my heart that so many people in this country don’t know the goodness & heart of our President, President Obama. You can see it in the way he talks directly to people, the way he is gracious, the way he cares, the way he feels. It’s written on his face, in his eyes, and his mannerisms. To me, it’s been an honor to have him as ou President. Thank you Sir.
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Well said….I whole heartily agree!
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You have to be it to see it, Karen. They can’t see it because they don’t KNOW it.
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I won’t. He was an awful president who used each and every tragedy to push his deranged agenda.. Good riddance to the revenge-racist-in-command..
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By “deranged”, do you mean simply wanting to go back to the common-sense restrictions on high-powered weaponry that existed under all U.S. presidents until W. Bush? Then I guess all of those other presidents were equally “deranged”.
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You are an idiot of the highest order! do you think Trump would do this. No he and Alex Jones think its all fake!!!
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Have you found that rock you crawled out from under yet?
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I am very sad for you and your lack of empathy and understanding. For failing to realize the despair hat the families have been through and to make a comment that has no bearing what-so-ever on the article. Very sad indeed.
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Niclas, another Russian communist hacker
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I’m as far from a Russian one can get but I find it ironic the likes of you, brainwashed lunatics who are so placated but the current divider-in-chief.
Your blind “in-obummer-we-trust” attitude is sickening, you’d make any propagandist at Pravda very proud. I didn’t care for bush, am ambivalent about trump but found obama worst than carter, and that says a lot.. yes, an elitist leftist demagogue who pretends he cares about regular people while using Air Force One as his private golfing excursion vehicle of transportation.. Speaking of which, he just flew out to Hawaii, again, on our dime.. yes, good riddance!
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You sick fuck…. Cannot wait until Trumps pathetic, ignorant ass fucks you up yours without any KY-Jelly. Your lucky he’s got a small dick. Maybe you should just suck it too. Oh, don’t forget to swallow prick.
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Damn, impressive. Try using your own words. Oh, can you read beyond 5th grade level.
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Theresa Owens – Your comment says a lot about the mindset of a typical democrats – vile trash, that’s all.
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No Niclas, it doesn’t. You are throwing the net wide and judging an entire party by the comments of one person. Really? Now what does that say about you?
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Lynda – you might have a good heart but my experience of dealing with democrats is of lies and deceit. The most racist and obnoxious human beings, and I use the term human beings very loosely, have always been democrats. Not all of them, I realize it, but I do believe the majority of elitists, racist, socialist O’bot drones.
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Then you must be too young to have known many Democrats. It’s the right-wing who are the most racist. Believe me–I got my first computer in 1998 and every email “forward” or posts I’ve seen in blogs, on FB, etc, have ALL (yes, ALL) have come from Republicans and right-wingers. I was actually a registered Republican until I was in my early 30’s and realized they are not for the people. They represent big business, and even though it’s been proven that Reagan’s “Trickle Down Theory” does not work, the Republicans still choose to believe in giving big business huge tax breaks and tell us this will help the masses. Oh, you’ll never hear them use the term “trickle down theory” since it is a known failure to those old enough to remember it because big business is is just greedy and does not give employees decent raises or hire more people like Republicans still blindly believe. No–I even have to take that back…even THEY aren’t that dumb to believe it works–they just back big business because that’s who pays (or more like “buys”) them. THEY are also the ones behind “Citizens United” which I still can’t believe was deemed constitutional by the Supreme Court. Our country has turned into a Godless nation and Trump coming into power is proof.
You are also obviously not aware that a big college did a study several years ago, researching whether Jesus would have been a Democrat or Republican based on all He said. My first thought was that he’d be a Republican (but that’s because of my upbringing in a strict church who views God as being a more “judgmental” versus a “loving and merciful” God). Needless to say, I was surprised to learn that they found Jesus would have had to be a Democrat, based on what He taught. Now that I’ve read the Bible myself many times, I can understand that He would have been a Democrat by the many things He said. It’s Democrats who are not judgmental and are open to differences in people and allows them to be who they are. Jesus said it is HIS place to judge–not ours. If you even watched “real” news on a regular basis I can guarantee you would have learned how ignorant you sound. By the things you mentioned I’d say you are either in your teens or 20’s–tops. Otherwise, you are someone who only watches and listens to right-wing broadcasts and not “real” news. We can choose to remain ignorant and only listen to one-sided, biased entertainers, or we can open ourselves up and educate ourselves. I choose the latter–which is why I get requests for donations from both parties. I do use “No Script” to help hide my identity from websites, but I made the mistake of allowing a safe Republican site to run once because it was the only way I could read the article. That was it–they were able to track me and send me requests for donations! But I’d rather have that inconvenience if it means I am willing to honestly read reputable articles from both sides. At 61 years old I have seen enough to identify those who educate themselves and those who only listen and read biased information. You are obviously the latter, based on so many things you stated as fact that are outright untrue. If you can come back 20 years from now and read all the things you posted, I can guarantee that you will laugh at yourself.
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Seriously doubt that. You and I are about the same age and we totally disagree on pretty much everything. My entire life I, along with many of my relatives have experienced racism and discrimination and yes, it was almost exclusively by the so called progressives who are nothing but closet biggots and racists. You can keep spreading your koolaid, I know it’s all empty words full of hate but hidden in the form of pretty “progressive” themes of equality and brotherhood. A truly pathetic bunch of liars.
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…and trump wants the people of New York to pay for his wife and son to stay in New York rather than live in the White House as every president had done in history. How can you read this article and find negatives? You are literally searching for something negative to say.
Darwinism, please help us.
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It shows how much attention you’re paying. I said I was ambivalent about trump, don’t care about him at all. However, you need to stop lying about trump wanting taxpayers to pay for his New York place. It’s a lie, you know it, and yet you keep spreading it. By the way, he is giving up his salary which obunner should have done too for all the damage he did to our country. Yes, Darwinism is alive and well, your moronic response proves it.
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Please enlighten me about all the damage President Obama has done to this country. Seems to me we are much better off now than we were when he took office, but then maybe you aren’t old enough to have remembered those years.
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And the statistics (unemployment being way down, he led us out of a near-depression in 8 years–something no financial expert thought could be done, and many other things he accomplished)–all back up what you just said. Unfortunately, people like Niclas don’t read, watch or listen to “real” news.
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I dont recall Trump asking anyone to pay for anything. He,simply stated they wouldnt immediately be moving into the Whitehouse. The secret service cosrs wouldnt be any different than the cost of MOOOO-chelles world travels… but I guess if you need a reason to piss and moan…
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Greg commented:
“I dont recall Trump asking anyone to pay for anything. He,simply stated they wouldnt immediately be moving into the Whitehouse. The secret service cosrs wouldnt be any different than the cost of MOOOO-chelles world travels… but I guess if you need a reason to piss and moan…”
How about you read the entire comment before you post? I never said Trump was asking us to pay for anything. I said some of the commenters here are saying that and they’re lying. I was agreeing with you so maybe you should reply to those who are disagreeing with you instead?
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Wasnt replying to you Niclas.. my comment was directed at the top of the thread at Amy… Not at you…unwad you panties and relax Nic.
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Ok. On my browser it shows as “replying to Niclas”.
Either way, good to see some sense here amongst the legions of koolaod drinkers and the legions of government addicts..
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PS. You also quoted my comment..
It’s all good. Go get ’em!
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I don’t know your life experience but I would bet you could use about 50 more years of experience in living through presidents…and maybe a few courses in psychology
! And YES the total lack of insight into what these families lost that day and what it had to have taken forr our president and his staff to get through that with such grace and quiet caring! I simply cannot imagine and I’ve lived a long time and had my share of tragic losses in life, but thank God never had to give up a child. President Obama hasn’t been perfect..no one is..but his leadership brought stability and common sense and dignity and grace to all of us..whether rabid republicans will let themselves see that or not. I have been a registered Republican and voted for several GOP presidents but never never again. I have such pride in Obama and have been a Hillary supporter for over 30 years and I’m still with her!
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Ass
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But I’ll bet you are just jumping for joy that your tax dollar is being used to pay for Trump to stay in his tower to the tune of a million dollars a day. Yep. Got that straight. But oh yes let’s get our undies in a knot about the way we have been providing transportation for our president for years. It’s required. Has been for as long as I’ve been on earth. And to top it all no one complained when the white prez had to go home or on vacation. Oh no that was just fine.
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Niclas, I was not a Trump supporter, but when he has done something right I have recognized it. I am a democrat and when Hillary did something wrong I spoke up about it. When Obama does something right, I praise him. I have also been known to disagree with aspects of his foreign policy. I can tell by your comment that you don’t hold that neutrality. I believe there was a trip to Florida where he did some work and golf, but I don’t know a business person who hasn’t mixed work and pleasure. I also know about a lot of deals that are made on the golf course. Yes he did go to Hawaii and secret service men have to go. The same number of secret service agents that are renting rooms in Trump Tower. After the assassination of Kennedy and attempted assassination of almost every President since then, the secret service have been very present everywhere. The President, President-elect, past presidents, and many more need to be protected from the kind of hate that you seem to represent.
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Micaela – maybe you’ve actually run into a democrat who’s a good human being and therefore your perception is different? I haven’t and doubt they exist. IF they do they must hide their hate for people who disagree with them very poorly.
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If roughly half the population identifies as democratic — millions of people — and you’ve never met one who didn’t seem hateful, has it occurred to you that maybe you’re the problem?
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Racism has an ugly face. Typically it’s someone who identifies as a “progressive” while he/she harbors a bigoted heart and a degenerative mindset. Look in the mirror. You’ll see an ugly “progressive”.
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I did. Turns out I’m a loving guy without a racist bone in my body. And I’m pretty damn handsome, too.
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God, you’re stupid!
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You’re so eloquent with your words.. lol
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He has the virtue of concision, gotta give him that.
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Rodney Wilson – the only communist, or at least pseudo-communist here is Obama, and I guess you too.
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How sad it is that you are so bitter in your in your heart towards another when one human being is only trying to offer comfort and sympathy after such a terrible loss. I sincerely feel sorry for you!
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Why don’t you move out of the country, Niclas? POS
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Deborah – why don’t you? This country was never socialist before until the current thief-in-command took over. Maybe you should move and take him with you?
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Actually, Niclas our government, itself is a form of socialism. We the people pay for everything that the government does and all the people employed by it and the politicians who run it.
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Niclas…JS is correct. We are a “republic” and NOT a true democracy. You wrote in an earlier post that we became a socialist country under President Obama. Well, Medicare has been around MUCH longer than President Obama. So has Medicaid, public assistance, Please stay in or go back to school. You’ve got TOO much learning to do yet.
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OK Niclas, again I ask you to cite your sources for saying this. I’ve asked you to cite sources for some of the ridiculous things you’ve posted, but to date you have not responded with any. I also really wish you would do yourself a favor and save all your posts so you can read them again in 20 years. As I’ve said before, you WILL laugh at yourself–I can guarantee it!
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Shame on you. I feel sorry for you and the hatred you have in your heart.
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Ken – I don’t hate, I pity him and the likes of you. Brainwash is a mad-democrat disease.
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you are the sick and and pathetic person.
Did you forget to take your meds?
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Yes because the incoming person who puts alt right people in place isn’t racist. His own statements about people of color show he is not racist. His lying constantly isn’t happening and the fact that he knows less about government than my 17 year old niece isn’t true.
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You sick fuck…. Cannot wait until Trumps pathetic, ignorant ass fucks you up yours without any KY-Jelly. Your lucky he’s got a small dick. Maybe you should just suck it too. Oh, don’t forget to swallow prick.
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Honey, I hope you will find other kinder words to use though I’m angry too and could let a few fly. But please let’s not stoop to his level of degradation. Let our motto be “when they go low, we go high”. It always pays in the end.
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You are definitely the deranged one. President Obama is a good man, father, and husband. It is ludicrous to state that he is racist with all the racism shown toward him from the GOP/TP. You may disagree with his policies, but to say that he used tragedies to further his political agenda, is just plain wrong
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You are an insensitive delusional hater.
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You simply are not a good person to use this place for your rant. You are shameful god forgive you.
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I agree, Carol.Using the death of these children as an opportunity to spread racist hatred is truly shameful.
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“…Using the death of these children as an opportunity to spread racist hatred is truly shameful…”
Yes, it is shameful the false prophet is using the death of these children to spread his liberal hatred.
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You’re a pathetic idiot.
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So if the POTUS visits grieving families in 2012, he’s OBVIOUSLY pushing his agenda. Yea, and keeping it a secret, that’s a part of his master plan too, right?
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And what is that deranged agenda?
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Do you believe one can accurately identify what is wrong if one cannot accurately identify what is right?
What, in your mind, was right or wrong about how Pres Obama responded to these families?
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An awful president? Really???
1. Bringing unemployment from nearly 10% when he took office down to 4.6%
2. Creating over 15 million new private sector jobs
3. Insuring an additional 20 million Americans
4. Nearly tripling the stock market
5. Killing Osama Bin Laden and thousands of terrorists
6. Reducing poverty to its lowest level in 50 years.
7. Wages increasing at their highest level in 40 years
8. The longest period of uninterrupted job growth in history
9. Reducing the deficit by two-thirds
10. 2$ a gallon gas
11. Saving the auto industry
12. Pulling us out of the worst economic disaster since the great depression
13. Ending the war in Iraq
14. Keeping us safe from external terrorist attacks
15. Regaining our stature world wide
16. Enabling our having the cleanest air since before the invention of the automobile
Yes, indeed, all awful things.
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Do you realize how stupid you are? Do you actually believe anything you just typed? If you do you should do us a favor and just jump off a tall building because the brainwash you’ve been exposing yourself to has made you a worthless human being. You simply repeat their talking points. That’s it.
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Well said. It will be almost entirely ignored by those who blindly and reflexively hate President Obama, but nonetheless, well said.
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Sorry ginapa, but Obama really didnt do anything in 8 years… When youre in a recession there is nowhere to go but up. Obama’s bailouts only made things worse for our children. He ran up the national debt, he reduced unemployment by replacing good paying jobs with low wage and part time jobs. I could go on and on. Bottom line is he is a failure. As far as being a “good man” as this article assrets: Good men dont lie(obamacare, the IRS, Benghazi)… Good men dont talk tough then run from evil.. his red line on cgemical weapons. Good men dont play the race card.. Ferguson, Baltimore… Good men dont use the IRS and Justice Department as Political tools. Going to Sandy Hook wasnt for the people who lost loved ones, it was just to stroke his fragile ego and a photo opportunity.
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Dear Trolls: President Obama restored the dignity, eloquence, courage, and compassion to the POTUS despite all that you and your kind could do to try and stop him.
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Bad man. Eight years of nothing. Thanks for your nuanced analysis. Keep us posted.
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Greg – totally agree with everything you said. Obummer is a total failure. He’s a manipulative, lying sack of manure. 25-50 years from now people will refer to him as the man who used America’s past wrong doings to divide our country even more. Someone who felt that revenge racism is the way to “heal” – not the nation but his own ego. He didn’t help us, the minorities of this country; instead he encourage racism by focusing on one race only while disregarding all others. He is the definition of closet revenge-racists himself. A man hiding his ugly and burning hate behind pretty words of inclusion and equality. What’s even worst are the legions of mindless O’drones who view him as their savior and god almighty himself. They see nothing wrong with him at all no matter what. The brainwash of these leftist haters is complete.
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No matter how carefully you dress it up, the real source of your frustration is that you cannot accept the notion of a black man in the Oval Office. “Revenge racist.” Relax. It’s almost over. Enjoy these last few days of groundless hostility toward President Obama and prepare for the next four years trying to defend the indefensible.
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Jerry, I’ve been admiring your comments on Vox Populi posts for a couple of years. You are truly a warrior for decency and common sense. Thank you!
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You stupid liberal loon – I’m more black than obummer can ever dream of. Good try – democrats have always been the most racists bunch of them all. Obummer proved it once again..
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How does the color of your skin somehow serve as an argument against your own racism? Regardless of your motivations (you must admit that the boundless intensity of your hostility suggests something more than meets the eye), the single greatest motivation among his detractors is pure and simple racism. My being a “loon,” or whatever silly name name you use, and you being if whatever ethnicity you claim to be, doesn’t matter. We’re just two people. Broadly, throughout our 320,000,000 people, race is the reason; is not the only reason, of course, it is the foundation for a lot of hatred. But I repeat myself. Adios, uncle Nick.
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Read some of the replies here to those of us who aren’t buying your god’s koolaid – yes, you liberals are the sickest of the sickest human beings. Racism is in your blood but you don’t even realize it. You keep people addicted to government programs and claim you’re actually helping them. LOL!
I know all too well what living in the projects is like. The democratic party’s own ghetto enclaves. Couldn’t keep us enslaved so this is the next best thing you came up with.
My point was that obummer is using his race for everything close to his heart, he was elected because he was black. Pure and simple. You democrats felt sorry for mistreating us minorities so you elected this false prophet simply because he looks black but speaks white.
Now he’s using his race for this anti-gun agenda using murdered kids for his own propaganda purposes. Yes, you are all sick for blindly following his lead, spare me your lectures, I’ve lived the life obummer claims he understands.
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1) He didnt do that… they changed how unemployment is defined and they dont count people who stopped looking… currently the lowest labor participation rate since 1976
2) Didnt do that either… We have a Bureau of Labor Statistics and thier projection were 15 million jobs by 2015… your giving him credit for economic growth that would have happened anyway.
3) And doubled the insurance costs of 80 million to pay for it before it collapses
4) He didnt build that
5) And released 5 terrorist leaders for a deserter allowing syria to use chemical weapons on civilians… the famous red line
6) not true… hightezt number of people on food stamps and welfare in our history
7) Not true.. wages are stagnant or lower than when he took office.. high end jobs lost, replace with low end jobs
8) Simply not true
9) Uhhh 9 trillion when he took office 19 trillion now…that is not a 2/3 reduction… redo your common core
math.
10) gas is cheap because of American oil industry… NOTHINGto do with Obama and his green energy failures
11) Not really
12) No… all he did was kick the can down the road by doubling the national debt and putting the burden on future generations. If you put all your current debt on a new credit card then bought a new home doubling your debt did you really fix anything? No.
13)Its still going …and Isis is usingthe equipment he left behing against us
14) you mean like San Bernadino and Miami night club? … safe… right
15) Like how Russia,Syria, Noth Korea, Iran all laugh every time Obama talks tough?
16)By signing agreement where we cut pollution while the rest of the world does nothing??? BFD. Zero long term impact if China continues to pollute.
The one thing he did: became undisputed WORST PRESIDENT EVER!!!
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Greg said “..The one thing he did: became undisputed WORST PRESIDENT EVER!!!..”
Finally some sense on this thread!
Yes, he surpassed Carter in his hate for America!
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I believe he is one of the best Presidents we have ever had. He is intelligent, caring, compassionate, humorous, a loving husband and father and do much more. We would not be in as good a shape without him. I am grieving the loss of him as our president. I wish that as one last farewell gesture he would consider making Standing Rock a memorial or something to keep Trump from allowing it to be pillaged.
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We have been so blessed with this thoughtful, compassionate, sensitive man. How cruelly he has been treated and with such grace he has served. God bless you, President Obama
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I am happy to have read this. He showed courage and kindness here.
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I have always loved and respected President Obama. He is a Godly man. Our country will miss that kind of leadership.
Sincerely,
Melissa S. Martin
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We could know how charitable Mr. Trump is… through the release of his taxes. Sadly today… facts are what counts…. and to date -the American public doesn’t have those facts.
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Thank goodness the families had this private intimate timely show of compassion from President Obama. He represented all of us who pray for those families.
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Let’s not speculate about Mr. Trump. Let’s just tell President Obama that he will be missed, so very much. And say thank you.
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Yes, let’s not contaminate this beautiful experience recounted here with hatred or negativity. I will surely miss our President. He is a humble, compassionate man and a truly inspiring leader.
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Margaret.. I truly like your sentiment as well as MEB’S very much, but at the same time it’s a bit hard for me not to speculate about Trump because of things he’s already said since he’s been elected (let alone the horrible things he said before the election). It’s hard to try to sit back and “give him a chance” because of what he’s said and done since Election Day, and he’s not even in office yet. So I can’t help feeling terrified for our country. Whether it’s regarding the national or international scene, I feel we are in big trouble. I pray everyday that God will take charge, help us and forgive us for electing such a disturbed, amoral and unethical man to be POTUS.
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Trump has been auditioning for this job for over a year now. I feel like we’ve had an excellent opportunity to see his strengths and weaknesses, we’ve seen the cabinet he is asenbking, we’ve seen his IR gaffs, and his childish tweets, all of which makes it very, very hard to think he is somehow going to be a different man come January 20.
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Trump, doing charitable things for anyone? That’s laughable. Unless there is something in it for him he won’t do anything,….except maybe claim that he did more then anyone else in history, hahaha. He’s an egomaniac and a liar. Don’t expect anything and you won’t be disappointed.
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Am curious, what charitable acts are you referring to?
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Always the humble servant, Trump does his charitable giving anonymously,
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So anonymously that there’s not a visible trace of anything ever having been given, and the recipients of his generous largess are totally mystified that they’d ever actually received any help at all, Oh he’s smooth all right! LOL
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It’s anonymous but you know about it?
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Yup. So charitable is he that he used what people had donated to his foundation to pay his lawyers fees, buy sports memorabilia and painted photos of himself.
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More kool aid sir? your glass along with your head is empty!
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Jerry another Russian hacker communist
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When is he anonymous about anything? We can’t even keep him off of twitter.
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Damn, you trumpsters are as ignorant as he is. That’s ok, keep hating on one of the best President Ever. You guys will get what’s coming.
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There you go again Theresa. I believe you are a either a hater or a troll and I wonder who’s perspective you are actually promoting. You are not supporting Obama in the spirit of his time in office. So either you are incredibly impulsive, extremely enraged and vindictive and that is shadowing your posts or you are stirring the pot. Strategic drama or personal drama, whichever it is, you are inciting it. I encourage you, if you are indeed a operating with integrity, to reconsider your tact.
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what????
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Bull shit!
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sarcasm.
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So anonymous that, like his taxes, he hasn’t given anything to anyone. Oh, except $1,000 to his own “charity” which is his golf course.
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You’re obviously talking about the clinton foundation..
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How about, zip, nada and finally, nothing.
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President-elect Trump does many charitable things for people that are not published, for accolades. I cannot believe that anyone would think that any President in office, at the time of a tragedy, would not do the same.
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With the personality Trump has, it is very highly unlikely he does ANY charitable giving anonymously, which is likely one of many reasons he won’t disclose his 1040’s (as EVERY President elect has done for several decades. Remember when he offered a donation to Vets during his campaign and had to be shamed into following through with the money months later when it was disclosed that he hadn’t given a red cent. Does he sound like a man who ever does anything for anyone (except family) without boasting about it? Use your critical thinking skills.
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Yeah right, I could never imagine trump offering condolences to anyone. He’d probably tell them they are weak for grieving.
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If it’s not published then how do you know he does it?
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Because there has been many tragedies throughout history and none has made such a personal response as President Obama. You only need to go back one president to G.W. Bush. He was “kind enough” to fly over LA after Katrina–over a week later and only AFTER he was shamed into doing so. Even then, he never met with people–just did a brief fly-over. Real compassionate, huh? And the time it took people to get federal help was shameful.
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Please list the charitable donations you are referring to and cite your sources. Two organizations he bragged about making donations to during the campaign both said he never contributed anything to them. He didn’t respond! BTW….When businesses or people make anonymous donations, the organizations themselves know who the donor is–it’s just that the donor requests the organization(s) not to list their names and to keep them anonymous. That’s because people don’t drop off thousands in cash to an organization–they write a check or money order “which has their names or business listed on them.” Are you really that naive and ignorant, or perhaps just very young and don’t know any better?
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